Curse

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 24, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I was using a Primal Rage myself in AB just to test it and it's much better than the other builds I've tried in PvP.

I ran:

Executioner's Strike
Dismember
Bull's Strike
Disrupting Chop
Primal Rage [E]
Rush
Protector's Strike
Lion's Comfort

There are way too many idiots in AB that don't notice that I use Primal Rage and instead, try to focus on my healer. The amount of damage from the build added with the 1/2 activation time of Protector's Strike makes it easy to spike somebody down in 5-6 seconds.

Killed u man · Dec 24, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

I was using a Primal Rage myself in AB just to test it and it's much better than the other builds I've tried in PvP.

I ran:

Executioner's Strike
Dismember
Bull's Strike
Disrupting Chop
Primal Rage [E]
Rush
Protector's Strike
Lion's Comfort

There are way too many idiots in AB that don't notice that I use Primal Rage and instead, try to focus on my healer. The amount of damage from the build added with the 1/2 activation time of Protector's Strike makes it easy to spike somebody down in 5-6 seconds.

Where do you get the energy from to spam Prot Strike? With 2 pips of regen, you get +- 7 energy every 10 seconds. That's 2 if you're good and "spam" bulls.

If you use a zelous set + constant PR, you have around (I think you hit once EVERY .9 seconds under 33% IAS kiting not included, but concidering you have PR, it won't be much lower anyways)
that's about 11 energy every 10 seconds + 1 pip, = 14 energy.

-5 from bulls, -5 from pr, assuming you use it once every 10 seconds, which is reasonable, since I'm already assuming you NEVER have to cancel it. (And thus never reapply after you cancelled it)

that's 4 energy every 10 seconds. Imo, you're simply better of with penetrating attack or something. Prot Strike is really only good an a high energ productive bar, which this clearly isn't.

But this was totally off-topci, I just felt like saying this

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 24, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Where do you get the energy from to spam Prot Strike? With 2 pips of regen, you get +- 7 energy every 10 seconds. That's 2 if you're good and "spam" bulls.

If you use a zelous set + constant PR, you have around (I think you hit once EVERY .9 seconds under 33% IAS kiting not included, but concidering you have PR, it won't be much lower anyways)
that's about 11 energy every 10 seconds + 1 pip, = 14 energy.

-5 from bulls, -5 from pr, assuming you use it once every 10 seconds, which is reasonable, since I'm already assuming you NEVER have to cancel it. (And thus never reapply after you cancelled it)

that's 4 energy every 10 seconds. Imo, you're simply better of with penetrating attack or something. Prot Strike is really only good an a high energ productive bar, which this clearly isn't.

But this was totally off-topci, I just felt like saying this

Well, for the build I used, I didn't SPAM Protector's Strike. I used it whenever people got around ~80%. Usually, they'd try to move, Bull's Strike -> Protector's Strike -> Disrupting Chop.

Also, for the bar, it isn't extremely efficient on energy however I don't have a problem keeping Primal Rage up. Before, I use Protector's Strike, I check to see if I need to refresh PR again.

Bobby2 · Dec 24, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

There are way too many idiots in AB that don't notice that I use Primal Rage and instead, try to focus on my healer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Usually, they'd try to move, Bull's Strike -> Protector's Strike -> Disrupting Chop.

And settle for Prot without bonus damage?

On PR: loving it. Not having to cancel to catch up to some pussy kite stance is Frenzy+++++.

Shendaar · Dec 24, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Yet its power is its own weakness. Attempt splitting with this warrior, wont go well at all, your only run buff is going to feed Elementalist and Ranger damage. That being said so much ranged damage in the metagame doesnt make this skill have easy cancellation.

Nobody runs PR without rush or another run stance so you won't be feeding Eles and rangers any more than a Evis+Frenzy+Rush bar. PR makes for a stronger split/skirmish template than Evis because you can move around the map faster and pursue targets with ease should the other team be retreating.

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 24, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

And settle for Prot without bonus damage?

On PR: loving it. Not having to cancel to catch up to some pussy kite stance is Frenzy+++++.

The bonus damage of Prot is pretty nice however I don't use it for that. I use it for the activation time which is 1/2 of a second. Throw that in when you have the 33% IAS from Primal Rage and you're building adrenaline pretty damn fast.

Ensign · Dec 25, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

A few ideas on this topic loosely based on some recent games on obs and general knowledge of the game:

The thing I liked best about Primal Rage in action was how good it was for running around the map. Getting a super Sprint on a bar alongside Rush is no joke. My impression is that this would be the best use of the skill at a high level of play.

When engaged I felt that the weakest Warriors got the most out of Primal Rage, and the strongest Warriors got the most. I.E., the Warriors that hit their Bulls, positioned themselves well, and chose/switched targets effectively gained very little from Primal Rage, while Warriors who were bad with Bulls, had awful positioning, and tended to train targets overly long gained the most from Primal Rage.

To that extent you could call Primal Rage 'easy mode for Warriors', since it is very good at compensating for poor play. This has a lot of value on its own for its ability to simplify gameplay and let the player focus on things that could be more important.

Dismember vs Eviscerate matters very little for a build all about 321spiking; quite honestly I would run both on the same bar if that's what I was doing. As has been mentioned already, when 321spiking people so much of your killing power comes from all the assists that you can be little more than a Deep Wound on a stick and be effective. Eviscerate matters a lot more in a metagame where pressure is significant and tends to stick, since it's then a tool a Warrior uses to burst down a low target with only minimal assistance. In a pure 321spiking build, Dismember may actually be the superior skill for its lower adrenaline cost.

Warriors Endurance looks like utter trash, and every Warrior I've seen using it has been wholly ineffective. I have no idea why people think it is any good.

scruffy · Dec 25, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

because like you said, warriors in a spike metagame are just 'deepwounds on a stick' and the WE bar gives them power attack and prot strike to use on every spike

Sirius-NZ · Dec 25, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Warrior's Endurance seems to turn up on practically every scythewarrior build I've seen. Apart from that, others could guess better than I.

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 25, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Warrior's Endurance seems to turn up on practically every scythewarrior build I've seen. Apart from that, others could guess better than I.

Well, this is the PvP section of the forums. Therefore, PvE builds need not be discussed.

Off-topic: Also, scythe warrior does A LOT of damage however only in PvE and even then, the energy management is to watch out for. Unless you have ~35 energy or higher (Fail for a warrior except where you use the Asuran blessing), scythe warrior is still inferior to anything a warrior really uses.

I've tested a scythe warrior using the Asuran blessing (+8 due to low rank), and even though it turned up the damage a lot in some places, if you weren't always hitting 3 mobs, it was inferior. True, mobs do clump up in PvE however they're not always in ADJACENT range of each other.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 25, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Warrior's Endurance is good, because you can spike every 3 seconds. Not to mention the pressure it allows.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 25, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Ah, so they're PvE. That would explain why they don't turn up regularly in arenas...

Burton2000 · Dec 26, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Warriors Endurance looks like utter trash, and every Warrior I've seen using it has been wholly ineffective. I have no idea why people think it is any good.

The skill is extremely effective in pure spike builds because it allows you to executioners/prot strike on every spike as well as providing energy for the rest of your bar.

Skyros · Dec 26, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

i dun see the point of having a speedy frenzy warrior if you can just bulls and then pump damage.

if anything... this skill does nothing for exp warriors and only encourages new/ inexp warriors to stay in a double damage stance longer.

Honestly I think we're talking about the use of PR or WE or Evis or whatever in a team environment and which is better. You dun need speed frenzy if you have people on your team doing their job (ie Snaring / knocklocking / calling out low targets etc.).

PR was bad before and now its just a very appealing crutch for bad warriors. But in the end... its still a crutch.

Klem Da Aussie · Dec 26, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Well listening to polly (chop chop the panda, rawr's core war for those who dont know) couple days ago on kiSu vent the reason he prefers PR over Evis is because it gives him alot more flexibility ie: It allows him to move more quickly around the battlefeild, apply more pressure, counter kiting foes and in some ways gain adren faster.

So by having these advantages, in his eyes it is way more better than having the + damage off a deepwound.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 26, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Gotta agree with Ensign.

Still, I like the revamp to Primal Rage. It helps a Warrior do what a Warrior should be doing - KILLING. I allows a Warrior to not have to choose between the extra damage and Adrenaline gain of an IAS or catching a kiting foe with an IMS. It grants +33% IMS while other Warrior run skills only grant +25% IMS (aside from [[Charge], but that's a Shout, not a Stance, and it's Tactics, which makes it piss for the most part aside from some rare situations for a Warrior) which doesn't seem like much, but yes, it is.

If you don't like it, don't run it. Don't think that your personal opinion > game mechanics, though. Like it or not, "Easy Button" or not, the new Primal Rage is a good skill, FAR better than its previous incarnation.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 26, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Gotta agree with Ensign.
FAR better than its previous incarnation.

Are you sure? I didn't know that.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 26, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

What exactly are you saying, Seraphim?

Mind explaining why you quoted my first, and part of my last statement, then proceeded to do exactly what...? Troll? Yea. Gotcha.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 26, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

What exactly are you saying, Seraphim?

Mind explaining why you quoted my first, and part of my last statement, then proceeded to do exactly what...? Troll? Yea. Gotcha.

If you want a straight answer, I was agreeing with you.

Killed u man · Dec 26, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klem Da Aussie

Well listening to polly (chop chop the panda, rawr's core war for those who dont know) couple days ago on kiSu vent the reason he prefers PR over Evis is because it gives him alot more flexibility ie: It allows him to move more quickly around the battlefeild, apply more pressure, counter kiting foes and in some ways gain adren faster.

So by having these advantages, in his eyes it is way more better than having the + damage off a deepwound.

Ok, but not every Warrior has 7 Monks to keep him alive, figure of speech.

Even then, Spamming Power Attack and Prot Strike on recharge applies just as much, if not more, pressure than simply being able to swap targets fasters once they've got protted or something.

Is everybody, but some, also forgetting Warriors have the godsend called [Bull's Strike]? This makes any IMS useless, because they "can't kite if their ass is on the ground"...